4195_D009_00001_R Director/Co-Writer/Producer Bill Holderman and Co-Writer/Producer Erin Simms on the set of their film BOOK CLUB: THE NEXT CHAPTER, a Focus Features release. Credit: Fabio Zayed / © 2023 FIFTH SEASON, LLC
Courtney Howard // Film Critic
Sequels are not always a sure thing. In addition to their financial viability, there’s the filmmakers’ ingenious ideas that have to materialize. Thankfully the stars aligned for Bill Holderman and Erin Simms to continue telling their on-going adventures of a hilarious, heartrending septuagenarian squad in their superb sequel, BOOK CLUB: THE NEXT CHAPTER. Their fabulous follow-up to the mega-successful original has Diane (Diane Keaton), Sharon (Candice Bergen), Carol (Mary Steenburgen) and Viv (Jane Fonda) traveling to Italy for Viv’s bachelorette party – and surprising discoveries await all the ladies.
At the film’s recent press day, I was able to speak with the affable filmmakers about their clever creation, what it was like bringing it to fruition in a mid-pandemic world and the blessings of filming overseas. [And if you missed it, we also chatted about its theme song.]
I’ve been so curious as to why the switch from Paramount to Focus Features? The first film was a major hit for them. Were they like, ‘We’re tired of raking in all this money from your movie?’
Bill Holderman: “There was a huge shift at the studio where everybody who was running the studio left. It was at a moment where Endeavor Content, which is now Fifth Season, who is the financially responsible end for the movie, was trying to figure out a deal there. And that team left and, during that window, took it to market.”
Erin Simms: “Well the clock ran out just as Jim Gianopulos was leaving. I think we just got cut. Our finaniciers had the opportunity to give it to other people.”
Holderman: “And thank goodness because Focus came in and was super supportive and have been amazing partners on the movie and with the release. I think it’s one of those things where it’s odd to go to a new studio, but also a really beautiful thing that there’s another studio that feels excited about this demographic, about this franchise and also, for us, getting to expand this world and go do this in Italy – a much bigger endeavor. And that’s really fun.”
Simms: “I don’t think, for Paramount, it definitely wasn’t they didn’t want to be in business with BOOK CLUB anymore. I think it was just happened to be bad timing, in general.”
Was it a no-brainer as to what book to focus on when writing this next chapter? How did The Alchemist come into play? How did that crystalize for you?
Holderman: “I don’t think it was a no-brainer. But it was the original first book and it was about the themes. When the idea of the sequel came up we were pretty resistant to it because we didn’t want to make a derivative, diluted version of the first movie. If we were gonna do a sequel, we wanted to do something that was going to expand the world for the characters and relationships and, as much fun as Fifty Shades was in the first movie, we wanted to make sure we were reflecting the sophistication and elegance of the group. The themes of The Alchemist were too good to pass up.
We wrote the original treatment around The Alchemist, and then there was pushback in the development phase, like, ‘That’s not the right book. Can we find one that’s more popular or new?’ So we tried and went down some cul-de-sacs with some other books that were maybe deemed more of the moment. But also, for us, if we were going to make a sequel, we couldn’t get away from the power of the themes from The Alchemist as they relate to the characters.”
Simms: “If anyone’s the most stubborn, it’s us. We just can’t get behind something we don’t 100% believe in and we believe in the message of the book. That was really special to us.”
Holderman: “And it felt like the right time, in terms of expanding what the characters were going through. The first film, we were really tackling what Fifty Shades brought to them – what your relationships and sex life, at any age, you’re still relevant. We wanted to take that and expand on not just that, but the entirety of the life.”
Simms: “Honestly, we’re such big movie fans. I just remember one particular movie – and I’m not going to name it – and the sequel came out and I was so excited and then really disappointing. It was so upsetting that I said, ‘Bill. This is what we can’t do.’ Listen, I don’t know if everyone is going to feel what we feel about the movie, but I’m proud of it. I feel like we pushed ourselves to try to make a better movie. That was the goal.”
These characters are so vibrant and poignant and hilarious. Because you know the actors’ own voices so well now, as well as these characters’, did that grease the wheels when writing the sequel?
Holderman: “I do think having made the first one and really understanding their personal rhythms and who they are as people, but also the characters that they develop, it did make writing the dialogue easier and more fun. You have those voices in your head. It’s one of the great joys when you really understand the characters as authentic.”
Simms: “And really represent them as people and actresses. We know them so well now – to write for them.”
Holderman: “They feel very real to us, the characters. They feel like real people. It’s about being truthful to their characters.”
It must’ve been tricky to modulate some of these scenes like the final act and the prison cell and make it feel like it’s satiating for the characters and the audience. The comedy has to work right too.
Holderman: “To me, their book club scenes are always the hardest. There’s so much exposition that you have to bury in a scene where they’re just sitting. Those are really complicated. You mentioned the jail scene and the scene in the car and the final wedding sequence as a whole – building out set pieces, making sure that all the characters are well accounted for and everyone gets their opportunity to shine is really important to us. Those tend to be the ones that get worked the most. The first drafts of those scenes – there’s probably a ton that ended up in the final movie – but some of that fine tuning and, to your point, modulating comedy and heart and not letting it tip too saccharine, or too sardonic, those are important.”
Simms: “The hardest scenes are when you’re trying to service each person in the storyline, but also the bigger thematic message of the movie. That’s the dance. That’s the threading of the needle that poses the most challenge.”
Holderman: “Those scenes are really fun to write though. When you have all four – especially when you get into the second and third act – and if you’ve done a decent job in the first act, the characters, whatever they’re dealing with is very real to them, and you just have to put yourselves in those shoes and let them be very real with their friends.”
What were some of the challenges taking this show on the road – and in a post-lockdown world? Were there any fish-out-of-water moments?
Holderman: “Obviously, one of the biggest challenges, because we made it in a middle of a pandemic and middle of a surge, at baseline, it was the safety and protection of everybody. Doing that in a foreign country was an added challenge.”
Simms: “But it was incredible, so it’s hard to say it was a challenge. It felt challenging, but it just isn’t when you’re in Italy, working with the best Italian crew, living basically at the top of the Spanish steps. There isn’t anything that feels challenging like it would probably here at home. It’s a lie to say we were challenged. We were having the time of our lives. Every day that you’re going to work and exploring a new country…where having to scout at 6am here may feel like, ‘Oh god,’ you’re in Italy! And you’re on a movie where you’re probably seeing things you wouldn’t normally as a tourist. You’re having locals take you out for lunch and show you their country.”
Holderman: “Yes! But…[laughs] there were several scenes where, and it’s rare that we do this, but we wrote something we didn’t know how we were going to pull off. Shooting in the middle of the Grand Canal in Venice is something you can write relatively effortlessly on a page, but when you get to Venice and [there’s] the logistics. It’s ambitious. We have actors of a certain age. We have to make sure we are taking care of them. Although I will say, Candice Bergen, no one likes a night shoot more than Candice. She was in the middle of the canal at 3am…”
Simms: “…like a full on teenager! Laughing. Loves it.”
Holderman: “Everyone was feeding off her energy. Production logistics to pull those things off. Shooting on that Tuscan road, we’re on the side of the road in Italy and we’re putting them in a field…”
Simms: “…the heat. The sheer amount of dialogue that these women had. You finish your shooting day and need to prepare for the next day. The work ethic and energy that they had, it was like, ‘I gotta get a grip.’ If Jane Fonda at 85 is…”
Holderman: “…in a full wool suit in 105 degree temperature…”
Simms: “….is not complaining, either!”
Can we please make this a trilogy?
Holderman: “Look, it’s been such an honor and privilege to make these movies that, if we get the opportunity to make another one, that would be mind-blowing.”
Simms: “If people go see this movie, yeah. But we can’t control that part. I hope people go see the movie and I hope they love it. We have another one in us!”
BOOK CLUB: THE NEXT CHAPTER will be in theaters on May 12.
