Courtney Howard // Film Critic
For many years, Randy Newman was the sole (and soul!) sound of Pixar’s TOY STORY franchise. However, when the creatives behind TOY STORY 5 were in need of yet another iconic song to accent and augment fearless cowgirl Jessie’s journey, they turned to a superstar pop icon who knows a thing or two about being fearless: Taylor Swift. To say she’s accomplished feels like an understatement. The multi-award-winning sensation created the sweet, nostalgic bop, “I Knew It, I Knew You,” with producer Jack Antonoff, debuting on Billboard at Number 1, making it her 15th Hot 100 No. 1.
At the film’s Critic’s Choice press conference this morning, Swift shared with us journalists about her fascinating songwriting process, how she was able to creatively stretch and what it means to her personally to be involved in a film franchise has loved since she was a kid playing with toys.
Swift, who was wearing a black cashmere, long-sleeved sweater accented by a layer of gold necklaces (one with the horseshoe pendant!), thought a lot about slotting her voice into the beloved series and tailoring her songwriting skills for a well-established character like Jessie.
“TOY STORY as a franchise, all these stories they’re telling, they are threading such a fine needle. They’re telling stories that are expansive and introspective. You watch TOY STORY 4 and are like, ‘This is about existentialism.’ It’s insane they’re able to layer so many intense revelations, lessons, learning moments – real life stuff – in with these toys that are cracking you up, making you feel reminded of certain friends in your life. It’s such an interesting and magnificent achievement in terms of storytelling.
As a fan of these movies, I’ve always looked at that with such reverence, but I also know, a lot of these things they’re just looking at things from a strictly simple, human experience place. Coming from a place of not overthinking too much. These storytellers – Andrew [Stanton, director] and Kenna [Harris, co-director/ writer] – they’re all inspired by things they go through in their life, as well as these journeys they’ve been on with these toys. When I was watching this film, I was so struck by the lessons that Jessie learned. They resonated with me because they were lessons I learned in my life. Maybe I wouldn’t have been able to write this song until I was in my 30s, because it takes you a long time to process and perceive memory with acceptance. That’s the most beautiful thing Jessie learns in this film.”
Swift never felt daunted by the task of creating a song akin to TOY STORY 2’s tear-jerking ballad “When She Loved Me.” Rather, she attempted to hint at the progression of the character, honoring the intent and pushing her arc forward.
“That song is so perfect and devastating. There are times where I’ll just think about it and I feel like I’m going to cry. I don’t even need to hear it to feel that way. It’s so potent and powerful. It’s sorrow and heartbreak and grief in its purest form. It’s interesting that Jessie is this character who, on the surface, so bold, brave, courageous, will do anything for her friends, is a risk taker. She’s wild and extroverted, but she has these deep wells of sorrow within her based on this experience she had with her former kid, Emily. That song so perfectly encapsulates the grief that shaped her and that she carries around with her every day.
With ‘I Knew It, I Knew You,’ I wanted to acknowledge that for her loss of Emily to have mattered this much to her, for Jessie to have carried it for the rest of her life, for all these decades, there was a lot of hopelessness and feeling of pointlessness and wondering if it meant nothing to Emily. When she reaches this revelation that she did matter – that you can be with someone for a time in their lives and make an impact and that can be enough to really mean something. I wanted to hint at ‘When She Loved Me,’ and heal it. That was a gift I wanted to give Jessie. As a fan of hers for all these years and as someone who loves this character, I wanted her to have this moment of healing that wound.”
Swift elucidated on being at the right place and time to be able to bring this song to life when asked if there are any kindred spirit songs in her own discography.
“I would like to say there are other songs that deal with memory, or closure, or clarity. I guess technically there are. But this song truly feels like it was a new experience for me as a songwriter. It’s everything from our approach, using instruments we’d never used in a song before. I’d never used a virginal harpsichord [laughs]. I’d never use certain chord progressions I used in this song. In terms of the specific type of gratitude, it’s something I’ve arrived at recently in my life. So I don’t think I was ready to write about it in this type of way until I saw Jessie experience it and then I could find a way in and connect to that specific type.
There’s like a weight lifted when you realize you don’t have to carry that particular thing around anymore. It took me awhile to learn how to release certain things from the load you drag around. And I happened to see the movie at the perfect time to write this.”
The next challenge was making Swift’s voice mesh with franchise stalwart Randy Newman’s sound. She and producer Jack Antonoff essentially asked themselves, “What Would Randy Do?”
“Randy is one-of-one. What he’s done in creating this entire world sonically around TOY STORY – it’s identifiable, singular and unique and immediately transports us to those characters to that world, to where we were when we saw those films – that’s the ultimate achievement. I’ve been a fan of his for so long and so has my co-writer Jack Antonoff. That’s why I called up Jack, because I really wanted to make this with someone who respects, understands and is a super fan of what Randy does. I knew in order to honor this film and the musical world of it, I’d have to make some stretches creatively. I’d have to reach for some different progressions that I would not naturally go to.
This is getting granular about it, but there’s a chord progression that I would never have gone to for one of my albums, because I just wouldn’t have thought to stretch in that way. There’s this moment on that line, [sings] ‘Life has ways of leavin’ those days behind,’ where, in one of my songs, I would’ve gone for an A-minor and instead we go to an A7 and then resolve in a D-minor. It almost feels like you’re about to modulate, but you don’t. [giggles] It’s something in my and Jack’s imagination, as us as Randy Newman fans, who’d be like, ‘I wonder if Randy would do this?’
We also paid homage to what he’s built with this amazing saga of films – we’ve got tenor sax, baritone sax – and they’re kind of playing in a way that’s structured a little differently than we would normally do it. We would usually have very organized structured parts, whereas in our world to reach towards Randy Newman, we felt like it could feel a little bit more like a jam band with individual players kind of acting as characters. You’ve got the saxophone players playing a hook that’s just a musical hook at the same time I’m singing the chorus hook over it. Those are just different choices we’d make over anything of mine. It was my goal to bring in country elements for Jessie. I think her time on Woody’s Roundup and her being a cowgirl, like I know how to bring that in. We’ve got banjo, we’ve got mandolin, harmonica, and there’s structural things I know we could do to add themselves to that part of Jessie.
But the Randy side of it was one of the reasons I called Jack. I was geeking out about having this opportunity at all and explaining to him what the film was about. I’d already written lyrics and I got home after watching the film and I went to my piano and was like, ‘Clear your schedule! Whatever you’re doing. Just FaceTime me! We’re writing this right now!’ And that’s what we did.”
Swift feels connected to Jessie in a few ways, she shared.
“Being in the entertainment industry, I’ve always felt it’s harder to hit a moving target. Once people feel like they’ve figured you out creatively, and figured out what you can do, they usually move into the discardment phase. That would always be where I would try to pivot. If they think you’re gonna zig, you zag instead. Rather than look at something as exhausting and daunting, I’d look at it as something is a new adventure. Once I’ve done one thing, I look for something else that inspires me. With Jessie, she’s always going on these adventures and trying to help someone new. There’s always something she feels inspired by – a new challenge ahead of her. She takes them on with such fearlessness, except we see her have a moment of crisis in this film where she does feel hopeless and useless – and she says to herself, ‘Am I a bad toy? Does any of this matter?’ It’s that moment that breaks your heart. Because you’re like, ‘No, Jessie!’ And then you get that amazing resolution where she reaches that place which is what inspired me to write that song.”
Swift pointed out it was a bit of a relief to not have to pull from her own life and write from a beloved character’s POV.
“In one way, there’s more pressure, because you really want to get it right for this character you love and especially wanting to honor the film’s I’ve adored for so long. But another way there’s a pressure release valve of not having to write about my personal life and being able to participate in a story I wasn’t just watching unfold. TOY STORY is something I rewatch all the time. It’s like a holiday thing that I’ll do. I’ll go back and watch the whole thing, from the first to the last. I learn something new and take something away differently as I’ve grown up. It was a joy to write from the perspective of one of my favorite characters especially at the moment that I got to find her in her narrative journey – in this moment of resolution. I’m so happy that I got to give her that moment of clarity and be part of that ‘ah-ha’ moment.”
As for what moved her the most and served as a prompt for her lyrics were the reoccurring themes centered on reunions.
“Reunions either between Woody and the gang and Buzz, and Jessie and Bullseye and coming back when she needed them the most, Woody coming back for Bo Peep,. Even more figuratively, the idea and revelation of Jessie having meant something to Emily, that showing up when she needed it and it mattered. That was the theme I felt, ‘Okay. I know exactly how she might feel after resolving decades of pain and loss and realized it wasn’t all in her head. It mattered just as much, if not more to that kid as it did to her.’”
Swift said the lyrics arrived first and then the melody followed shortly thereafter.
“Lyrics were what I was spinning out with first. I love a double meaning. I love when something is both allegorical and literal. Like the song starts with ‘I knew you through the days of the blades of the grass in summer.’ If you think about that as an allegory, it’s youth. It’s the people who knew you when you didn’t wear shoes very often and you were always outside, covered in dirt and sunburnt. That’s a really specific version of you to know. But in the literal sense, these are toys. When they’re standing on the ground, looking up at their kid, they’re looking up at them through the blades of grass… ‘cuz they’re toys.
I really hit on the idea of ‘I knew it! I had it right originally!’ I’m a big “trust your intuition” person. Jessie’s intuition was that this relationship, this friendship, this mentorship with her kid, in her mind, she’s raising this kid and teaching her how to explore her imagination, her realizing that mattered was like ‘I knew it! I knew that mattered! I knew, I knew you!’
The affable talent called the song, “cozy.”
“I feel like I relate to this song more every time I sing it and it makes me feel comforted. There’s something to me about hearing the words of this message that they conveyed in TOY STORY 5 so well that echoes musically that makes me feel calm about life, about friendships, about lessons, about things falling into their right place. The best thing about it is it’s fun when you’re really proud of your work. It’s fun when you get to be a part of something that’s beyond your wildest fantasies.”
Swift mentioned she will always be grateful for being included in the Pixar legacy. However, he favorite moment she cherished the most really brought her dreams to life.
“My favorite moment hands down is performing with Randy Newman at the film’s premiere. I felt like I was in a dream sequence. When you hear him play the intro notes of ‘You’ve Got A Friend,’ you can’t believe that’s happening in front of you at all. I never thought I’d get to hear that live. He’s so funny. He’s so quick-witted. He’s adding all these jokes into the performance that we hadn’t done in sound check. Getting to meet someone who’s such a sparkly person was just unbelievable. I’m so grateful for him welcoming me into the fold like that.”
TOY STORY 5 is available to stream on Disney+. Taylor Swift’s single is available to purchase wherever digital downloads are available.
